Last Wednesday, I went to the primary care doctor and begged for pain medication. He took an x-ray of my back, his face got really pale, and he mumbled some shit about thinking my harrington rod implant was "coming loose" (which is complete bullshit, but I digress), or that I may have arthritis (DUH!), told me to see the back surgeon, and prescribed Tylenol 3, one every 8 hours.
I have taken only two per day instead of three since then. I am amazed at the difference in the way I feel. I am amazed that I allowed them to brainwash me into thinking that I did not need opiate pain relievers.
I am angry. I cannot believe I have allowed the physicians to maintain their brainwashing bullshit that opiates are "EVIL" and that there is a risk of addiciton that is too great to justify their use. All the while, being in too much pain to be able to do the shopping, cook the food, iron the clothes, go anywhere, sleep, think.......
I have an appointment with orthopedics Monday to find out if there is anything surgical or whether pain management is needed. I plan to not allow myself to ever go back to feeling as badly as I have for the last year if I have to score heroin on the streetcorner. NOONE should have to live like that.
I have taken only two per day instead of three since then. I am amazed at the difference in the way I feel. I am amazed that I allowed them to brainwash me into thinking that I did not need opiate pain relievers.
I am angry. I cannot believe I have allowed the physicians to maintain their brainwashing bullshit that opiates are "EVIL" and that there is a risk of addiciton that is too great to justify their use. All the while, being in too much pain to be able to do the shopping, cook the food, iron the clothes, go anywhere, sleep, think.......
I have an appointment with orthopedics Monday to find out if there is anything surgical or whether pain management is needed. I plan to not allow myself to ever go back to feeling as badly as I have for the last year if I have to score heroin on the streetcorner. NOONE should have to live like that.
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Los Angeles
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Tue, August 22, 2006 - 4:19 AMMaybe there should be a class in med school where all doctors felt pain every second of every day for at least a year (we gotta go easy on them!) - THEN I'd like to see how they treat patients in pain. Do they really think that we WANT all of the nausea, lack of appetite, and constipation just to... Just to WHAT? Do they think we're getting HIGH off this stuff?? Yeah, I'm addicted - to the PAIN RELIEF! Please, that milli second of euphoria dissappeared a LONG time ago.
Hey, Dave - I'm sure that I can scrounge up a few extra percocets and Fed Ex them to you if you start thinking about heading to the heroin house!
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Tue, August 22, 2006 - 8:05 AMDave,
I agree completely. When I first started having symptoms of CRPS, I went back to the surgeon who had operated on my arm 9 months before and told him something wasn't right. He did an x-ray and said it looked fine. He was the kind of specialist who spends 5 minutes with each patient -- I have never understood how you can give quality care in that amount of time. So I went on vacation, and a few days later while I was traveling the pain was so bad I called the doctor's office, in tears, and begged for medication. I managed to convince the on call doc to help me and got a friend to overnight the pills. When I got back from my trip, which was filled with excruciating pain like I'd never experienced, I went back to the doctor, where instead of getting help I was threatened -- "I'll give you some vicodin today, and we'll do some tests, but if nothing shows up, I can't give you any more meds."
What about the fact that I was in pain? Wasn't the pain, by itself, a big enough symptom? By LAW and by PHYSICIAN'S CODE they are REQUIRED to treat pain as an illness. They are REQUIRED to keep us from living every day in this kind of pain. The treatment we get from doctors -- insinuations of drug seeking, addictive behavior -- on a regular basis SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WITH A DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF PAIN. even a drug addict with chronic pain deserves adequate treatment, including opiates, which CAN be managed appropriately even in those cases by GOOD doctors.
I was very lucky that while the arthrogram seemed to show nothing, a nerve conduction study showed clear evidence of nerve damage that followed the symptoms I was having. I had already found info on CRPS in my research but it took another two years for a doctor to give me the diagnosis. I was also very, very lucky to be referred by a friend to an amazing pain doctor who requires at least a 30 minute appointment every time, even just to refill meds. No exceptions. That's what should be happening to all of us.
Someone gave me a really good piece of advice the other day. It sounds like a no brainer but it was kind of a wake up call for me. I was complaining about the orthopedist who spent five minutes with me and forgot everything about my case repeatedly, and saying I had a hard time following his advice because I had no respect for him. And the friend I was talking to said, "If you don't respect him, you need to find another doctor that you can respect." I think it is sometimes hard to remember that we have the power to speak up and change the situation, change the doctor, the hospital, the type of treatment. That's not always the case, but I know that often I feel trapped when I really have options that could be exercised.
In the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell he talks about doctors who get sued for malpractice. The primary determinator of who gets sued isn't who makes the most mistakes -- it is the doctors that do not listen and talk down to their patients. The studies that have been done have found that you can judge doctors by this trait alone and accurately divide between the ones who are sued and the ones who aren't. It gives me something to think about -- if I am not being listened to and am being talked down to, do I want to be seeing this doctor if he might have a terrible record of malpractice -- or be headed for one? Or, bottom line, do I really want to be treated that way in the first place?
I wish you the best of luck, Dave, in finding the care you need. You deserve to be in less pain, to be treated with compassion and kindness. If we can support you in any way here in this group, please ask.
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Tue, August 22, 2006 - 6:04 PMI realized just yesterday how far I've fallen down the self-empowerment ladder when I called my doctor's office in horrible pain, and they said they could see me a week from Thursday. I was almost pathetically grateful.
When my pain first started, I would have insisted on being seen that day, or the next day at least, and I would have insisted on help.
We just seem to get less and less ourselves when we are suffering and treated with little or no respect.
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Thu, August 24, 2006 - 12:36 AM>> In the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell he talks about doctors who get sued for malpractice. The primary determinator of who gets sued isn't who makes the most mistakes -- it is the doctors that do not listen and talk down to their patients. The studies that have been done have found that you can judge doctors by this trait alone and accurately divide between the ones who are sued and the ones who aren't. It gives me something to think about -- if I am not being listened to and am being talked down to, do I want to be seeing this doctor if he might have a terrible record of malpractice -- or be headed for one? Or, bottom line, do I really want to be treated that way in the first place? <<
Just because a doctor gets sued for malpractice does *not* necessarily mean he's actually committed it. And many of these cases are settled out of court, with the doctor's insurance paying out, just to make them go away more quickly and to not have to endure the time, expense, and potential risk of losing in a jury trial. Again, just because the insurance company has paid out on a claim of this nature does not necessarily mean there's any actual guilt involved. It's a question of expediency and cost savings. Many malpractice suits arise out of situations in which the doctor actually had no role (such as birth defects), and people either not understanding the difference between fault on the part of the doctor and the sort of shit that just plain sometimes happens, and attorneys willing to feed on that.
The point of this correlation of malpractice suits with the doctor's behavior is not necessarily that more such doctors actually screw up in any way but that their patients are far more likely to forgive them any errors they do make (real or perceived) if they treat the patient well and give them enough time. People who don't feel listened to are more likely to seek revenge via a malpractice suit.
Of course, the odds of a screw up do increase the less the doctor actually knows about you, which odds also increase the less time he speads with you. There are also plenty of very compassionate doctors running around out there who are plenty incompetent, too, though, believe me.
You absolutely must evaluate your doctor on other criteria as well. Sometimes it is simply in one's better interest by far to take the guy who has zip for bedside manner if he's the best one around, especially if your life depends upon his skills. Bedside manner is important, but won't matter anywhere near as much if the doctor lacks the skill to actually help you.
Now, that said, you are certainly still better off one way or the other seeing someone who is in fact willing to take the time to really evaluate you, and to treat you with respect, as long as he really is also competent.
Wendy
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Tue, May 1, 2007 - 12:44 AMI second that statement. All of them. Doctors are idiots. K.
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Sat, November 25, 2006 - 7:08 AMDave,
Please start searching the internet for something called "Flat-back syndrome" (It comes from having a harrington rod)There are thousands of us! And the pain only gets worse!
I don't know why or when you had your harrington rod implant done. Mine was for scoliosis. It was done in 1984. I've had nothing but problems since! Back then it was done in what everyone seems to describe as the "old fashioned way"
I re-applied for a handicapped parking placard last year and was rejected. According to them "Severe scoliosis" does not qualify as a handicap! What they don't get to see on paper is the fact that I can barely walk anymore. I indicated that I've relied on a cane for the past year and a half. They don't care. So I sought out a Neurologist to fill out the forms so I could file for an appeal. ..He filled out the form and indicated that I was unable to drive! And that my diagnosis was severe scoliosis!
Of course I couldn't send in that paperwork. If they saw that he put down I could not drive, they'd take my license away! I CAN DRIVE! (It's walking I have a problem with!)
But, he told me to come back so that he could put me on a stronger pain med. I've been taking percocet for about 2 years. (Tylenol and Vicodin stopped working for me a while ago)
Anyway, the neurologist tried me on Oxycontin(I had a problem with it),Then he tried a fentinyl patch(another problem)and then morphine(another problem). If you want a doctor who will believe you, instead of a primary care Dr. - FIND A NEUROLOGIST! On the papers that I got from the drug store with the morphine prescription was a precaution for people with kyphoscoloisis. So, I did an internet search to see what the relationship was. And that's how I came up with "Flat back syndrome" I went to see an Ortho Surgeon listed on that web site. - He asked me "Why the hell are you still working?-You should be on a total diability!"
I spent 22 years trying to find someone to believe me!!!(I can completely understand your frustration!) I can't stop working, I told him. My last yearly statement from Social Security indicated that if I became totally disabled now I could collect $1000. a month. No one can live on $1000 a month. He offered to get me a scooter. He offered a scooter again! Then he suggested maybe a WHEELCHAIR! (My heart sank) I declined, got my paperwork filled out and I left.
See your back surgeon. Ask about flat-back. According to the Dr I saw that surgery only works well on children. Adults have always had problem. When there was an adult who had successful surgery done, that was the exception. The failures were the rule! Your orthopedic surgeon will probably suggest physical therapy. All of the ones that I had previously seen did. Believe me, ask about "FLAT-BACK SYNDROME" AND IF YOU WANT SOMEONE WILLING TO ALLEVIATE YOU PAIN THROUGH MEDICATION, FIND A NEUROLOGIST!!! -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Sun, November 26, 2006 - 2:27 PMWow. Let me get busy researching that.
I had the surgery at age 16 in 1979 for scoliosis also. -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Mon, December 18, 2006 - 1:18 AMSomehow I never get used to reading the same/consistent story of those of us living in CHRONIC PAIN---regardless of the injury or disease -- we are like the lepers of ancient times -- the UNTOUCHABLES. I've spent 35+ yrs. in CP, lost 2 marriages, a number of jobs, friends, family, watch all I worked for disappear...Everything gone. How many drs. did I see? Lost count a long time ago. The "presenting problem" (which they didn't see "presenting") is TMJ (tempromandibular joint dysfunction). I had been accidentlly hit behind my left ear by a golf - in the full strength of the swing back. At the time I had a concussion and a fractured skull. Fast forward 4 years, 3 babies and a husband who couldn't seem to face reality. I went on then to divorce him, went to work full time. I kept at it somehow (when I look back over it, I sometimes get shivers and a cold seems to wash over me). For the next l8 years (another marriage), multiple duos of been there//done that. It seems to me that I've been x-rayed, MRI, EEG, EKG, and so many more, too many more to list. At 2 different points, my care was entrusted to a psychiatric hospital, only to be let out again, as noting could be found. Finally, I saw an Oral Surgeon explained to me what I knew was happening to me; all the while looking at me with a common sort of disinterest -- likened me to someoone who didn't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. That first surgery both jaws were removed (severe arthritis-osteo, had set in); so they did the surgery. That one was followed by 4 more. One time to remove a granuloma. The major problems ensued after the last 2. Some of my teeth had to be pulled to get the now rib-grafted one in. What was not explained or not fully understood by me was the fact that my face would be disfigured by this. (Now by this time I'd been put on Morphine and was on it round the clock.) I had at least found a room to rent out in the country. (Living by the sea or in the country works best for me.) During those early years, I just struggled to keep the kids (3 boys) in previous good schools and live in a quiet safe neighborhood. (somewhere in this span of time, living in the country I came down with a bad strep pneumonia and was kept intubated for 30 days in ICU. They let me out too soon and in 2 days I was back in needing 2 units of blood, which I rec'd. Then when they dismissed me in another 7 days I and after that I was still in constant severe pain.. It was after the pneumonia that my dosages of morphine were fooled arouond with. Then last year, about 3 days before Christmas, I fell off a cliff while I was out walking withj family in a beautiful nature preserve. Once again I was intubated and on life support.. (Earlier during the summer of 2005, I had a seizure -- due to the fact that I had been trying to reduce/cut out completely the drugs I was ondl I dind't dkkow what would happen. I had multiple fractures of ribs, back; had to be put on ventilator. As I began to gain some s trength ,they asked & I agreed to the nursing home again. IThe seizure took all of my memory bank for the previous year and much more of it for the previous l5 - 17 yrs. But the jaw pain, so relentless for over 35 yrs. was gone. I felt like I was in some kind of dream-sequence. When I realized the pain was gone I could have lept out of the bed. Then I began again in ernest to be done with all the meds. (though by now i don't think a lot of people thought i couldl do it but i did. (Now I know i'm mixing stuff up here because it's been a serverly painful day & I've tried to keep my mind busy & not allow pain to get too much of a foot-hole. You see after the fall I was put back on the morphine (my body has a strong tolerance to Morphine and the dosages weren't much help -- so I had to take larger dosages just to be able to take it and have it do any goodl. That a very low time for me...after getting off (that took about 5 months for me to do alone. I didn't want to go to any rehab unit and believed I could do it again. However, I was working through a new set of nerves, new scenario altogether. I came home in a TAXI cab. What is the point of all of this? I mean I wonder myself.
So, when I read stories of you all, it just seems so unnecessasry. Now we are at Christmastime again and I am planning another walk in the same area -- just to ge rid of any psychological bits hanging around.
I am working with a dentist who has agreed to accept working on restoring some of the missinsg teeth! I am so happy about that. Now with the back trouble, I can't make it around the volleyball court anymore!! But i keep up as an audience. I don't really have any new found problems with the teeth -- souonds like it will be undergoing for awhile. Then I don't know what will happen next. I've decided that it doesn't really matter if I do or if I don't -- anything can step in and turn the tables over!!!!!
I know of things I've heard about in Congress. But so much work needs to be done so other people don['t have to suffer as we hasve.
It's late and I should be in the bed so good night; and everyone hold out good positive energy for ourselves and any others we may come to know of..
Be Well
patricia
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Mon, December 18, 2006 - 1:37 AMWow. I've done my research on flat-back syndrome and am ready to scream. The "recommended" treatment seems to be another surgery from both the FRONT and BACK. I'll be damned if thosequacks are going to slice saw hammer and dice me again.
Ugh. -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Sun, January 7, 2007 - 3:02 PMI've had back pain for over 30 years and then I injured my back at work in 1993. I was given Vicodin and Valium. The vicodin speeds me up which did not realize was not the normal reaction for quite a while. I hated vicodin.
Around 1996 I started seeing a pain specialist, they are often psyiatrists. It's who you see whn nothing can really be done except to manage the pain. They do not like short actin pain meds because you cycle in and out of the pain and you feel the medication, you get high.
They like long acting pain meds, opiates, morphine, 12 or 24 hour ones. They keep the pain from breaking through and you do not feel them, you do not get high unless you take extra when you have more pain. You can function, drive, everything.
Regular Dr's will not give them to you as they do not understand it. You are habituated not addicted. To get off of them you will go through withdrawal, your body is habituated to the opiates. You do not need higher and higher doses, at least I do not. I have been on long acting morphine for 10 years. I am on a low dose but without I cannot function because of the pain. I still have pain, it does not take it all away but it makes it bearable. -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Wed, January 24, 2007 - 7:57 AMHI.
I've had only one doctor who has used the terminology habituated rather than addicted. This is really true,because I believe addiction includes an entire set of behaviours associated with the addiction itself. For me chronic pain was something I didn't ask for. I didn't go out in my life seeking pain meds, before my injury. I used to think to myself, when docs would say I was drug seeking, of course I'm drug seeking you idiot I'm in incredible pain and my life is falling apart. I don't know who I am anymore because the pain is all consuming eating up the quality of my life in big huge vociferious chunks. Now shut up and help me before suicide sounds like a sane option again. -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Sun, February 18, 2007 - 9:30 AM"of course I'm drug seeking you idiot I'm in incredible pain and my life is falling apart. I don't know who I am anymore because the pain is all consuming eating up the quality of my life in big huge vociferious chunks. Now shut up and help me before suicide sounds like a sane option again. "
I've had the same rant run through my head in respone to many unaware docs.
Kaiser Pain Program probably saved my life, or at least recovered some of it.
PAIN SPECIALISTS...Yes
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Tue, May 1, 2007 - 3:57 PMAnne,
thanks for explaining that. I would never go to a GP for my chronic problems because they haven't a clue, I suffered for many many years and was taking so much of several meds it's amazing I am alive today given that I gave my mother 60 % of my liver and most of these meds were doing serious damage to my liver.
I finally got to a guy a Johns Hopkins who sent me to exactly what you are describing down here. No one else will touch me, but I'll tell you I feel so so so much better and many days almost completely pain free. If I am stupid and over do it well then of course I am going to hurt, but hey you got to live sometime you know?
everything I take is long lasting except for a few breakthrough meds to help get me over the bad humps, now they do make me feel a little woozy in the head and I am very careful when and where I take them. I like to feel normal so I really have to hurt, which mean I usually take the breakthrough meds, before I go to bed to help me sleep x2 per night. Overall, I like the fact that I don't feel high, I can live a fairly normal life and live relatively pain free and yes I have some pretty shitty chronic stuff including serious irreparable lower back damage, nerve damage, legs and enough that I don't really want to go into it all of it. I am so glad I had someone care enough to point me to Johns Hopkins or I would probably be dead by now and in pain the entire time. General Practitioner have no business treating Chronic Pain. That was the best thing that ever happened to me. Hell I had to take meds to flush my liver of the meds the GP was giving me and wasn't paying attention to all the different prescriptions he was givining me, but at the same time wasn't giving me anything that was helping the pain. dumb ass!
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 7:26 AMGet yourself to a pain management doctor, it made a huge difference for me. All my pain doc does is prescribe my pain meds - long-acting opiates so I'm not popping a fistful of pills every day.
Regular doctors don't like prescribing pain meds, I think we all have gone through that. We need to be educated about the meds, and about our rights as patients. I'd like to get into this more, but have to go to work - a job I couldn't hold if it weren't for pain meds!
Here are some links regarding pain management:
www.pain.com/
www.aapainmanage.org/
www.religioustolerance.org/euth_pai.htm
www.ampainsoc.org/ -
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Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 7:28 AMalso, if you can't get the doctors to help you, try keeping a pain diary and take it to your next appt. Keep track of your pain levels (1-10), what you take or do to get relief, and how well it works. In y experience, this written documentation helps many doctors feel more comfortable prescribing.
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Unsu...
Re: Opiates, brainwashing, and chronic pain
Sun, May 13, 2007 - 1:01 AMAbout this you are quite right. Somehow when one slips into some netherland of pain, depression, anxiety, confusion -- the only thing you can be clear about, can know with absolute certainty--is that you must take charge of your body's faltering...no on else can know what that means to you. I spent the best years of my life, living day in and day out. in some sort of fugue state constantly being hit by lightning bolts of sheer pain. YOU have to take care of you. No body is suffering what you are. In your freer times, when you can think, educate yourself about the root cause of your pain and don't let some doctor with his name on a certificate ever pretend to "understand" your suffering. Over half of my life, I lived through that nightmare. There is more information and cohesive groups to help people in Chronic Pain. Connect and Affect this so misunderstood pain; and then it becomes "your" fault that you are having this horrific menace deplete your sensibility and ability to find joy or peace in anything or anyone anymore. Populate your life as well, with others who can understand and support you as you are. Itis only from where you are that you can hope to get to any other place. Your LIFE waits upon you!
